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DISCUSSMark Driscoll Kicks His Own Ass
07/01/2008By Jesse Benjamin
Mark Driscoll, Pastor of Mars Hill Church in Seattle, took a dramatic stand against girly men at a Pastor’s Conference in Houston last week.
The conference, called “re:tool and re:load,” previously billed as “jesus 2.0,” featured speakers from around the country with the stated focus of “Making the Gospel and Missiology Relevant to Post Modern Culture.” Speaking at the last session of the conference, Driscoll focused his three-and-a-half-hour talk on the need for pastors to be more alpha.
“The problem with our churches today is that the lead pastor is some sissy boy who wears cardigan sweaters, has The Carpenters dialed in on his iPod, gets his hair cut at a salon instead of a barber shop, hasn’t been to an Ultimate Fighting match, works out on an elliptical machine instead of going to isolated regions of Russia like in Rocky IV in order to harvest lumber with his teeth, and generally swishes around like Jack from Three’s Company whenever Mr. Roper was around.”
Pacing the stage in a vaguely threatening manner, Driscoll focused on Biblical examples. “Jesus and Paul were serious dudes. They had teeth missing. Jesus was a carpenter, Paul was in prison. These guys didn’t eat tofu dogs and bean sprouts. They didn’t play tennis. If there were trucks back in their times, they would have been doing driveway lube jobs on a Saturday afternoon. Same thing with King David. Yeah, he might have played a lyre, but he slaughtered thousands of guys.”
The 300 pastors from around the country roared with approval, even though many of them had heard the same labored formulations at previous conferences called “reGeneration” and “resurge and reform.”
“At the Re:Ignite conference he talked about how Jesus and Peter didn’t wear matching sweatshirts that said ‘Best Buds’,” said John Kinston, a conference attendee who was live-blogging the event.
Kinston is emblematic of the many young pastors who support Driscoll. He planted Kiona Community Church three years ago in downtown Louisville, Kentucky. He attends 37 Mark Driscoll conferences each year, because he said he needs the support of fellow church planters and the inspiration of steroidal statistics.
“Numbers aren’t important, but we’ve grown 81.7% a year since our launch date and I still can’t get the guys to step up and be warriors," said Kinston. "We want to love our city and we can’t do that with a bunch of pansies who would rather play video games than go to a monster truck rally or tattoo their faces like Mike Tyson.
“At last year’s Converging Conference, Driscoll talked about standing up when you piss and I got really excited. We started a men’s-only Bible Accountability Group. It was a combination of scripture study and Muy Thai Stick Fighting. It was great for a few weeks, until my worship pastor lost an eye. I had to make a tough call then and there: no more Muy Thai Stick Fighting at Kiona Community without protective face gear. I still think it might have been a spiritual compromise.”
In Houston, Driscoll was intent on making absolutely clear that he is in favor of masculinity. At the 2 hour, 15 minute mark, he invited five pastors from the audience to take the stage, put his hands behind his back, stuck out his chin, and said, “Hit me with your best shot. Go on. I won’t hit you back. I want to show everyone what this is all about.” When none of the five took a swing, Driscoll had them escorted from the building and proceeded to hit himself five times.
“This is what being a pastor is about, guys. If you can’t handle it, go back to teaching yoga or playing My Little Pony with the other girls.”
The rest of the session followed the same general tone, with Driscoll ridiculing insulated coffee cups, haiku and dental floss as feminine while extolling athletic cups, tobacco spit and broken load-bearing bones as being “essential for a pastor.”
The blogosphere heated up quickly in the wake of Driscoll’s talk. At Jesuswasaman.blogspot.com, one post read, “This is the only thing that will turn back the tide of the Church’s decline in America. Until more guys step up and start punching themselves in the face, people will continue to leave the Church.”
Driscoll’s detractors had their say as well. At thereisaplacefordriscollinhellbesidehitler.wordpress.com, Angel23 said, “It doesn’t matter that Driscoll’s church has 6,000 people coming to worship God, if he continues to use words like sissy he will be smited.”
Driscoll turned down our request for an interview, saying, “Interviews are for wimpy guys who wear Sans-a-Belt slacks and chew sugar-free gum.”
Is Driscoll the Bizarro Rob Bell? Both pastor churches called Mars Hill, and both are (supposedly in driscolls case) emergent pastors, but they are total opposites. Bell is like a gen-x Mr. Rogers and Driscoll wishes he were Hulk Hogan. Christendom is ever so entertaining. The Door should do "Christian Celebrity Death Match".
Bell, I can relate to; Driscoll I can only roll my eyes at and sigh.
Ya, I like Bell too. One of the few I can sit all the way through.
The other "one" I like is Jay Bakker.
Speaking of Bell, he had Phyllis Tickle speak this past Sunday; I haven't listened to her message, but it should be interesting to hear.
Bell preaches heresy. Driscoll is Biblical with a touch of being very OUT THERE. Driscoll broke from the Emerging Church and the heresy taught and now teaches at seminars with the likes of John Piper, C.J.Mahaney and Al Mohler.
It is likely that you would be hard pressed to get Bell to commit to being an emergent pastor; although it certainly seems he has some of those tendencies.
Dog is still speaking.
Why do you persecute people for their personality traits. I know men who are rough and tumble and I know men who are more studious. It has nothing to do with relegion. Jesus uses who we are...where we are.
I don't want to be to harsh towards Mark Driscoll because he does have some good things to say. But the way he is acting with his Christian-WWF stylized idea of manhood just shows ignorance. And his attacks upon other Christian leaders who he thinks are pansies, or whatever, is almost hateful. Personality does have some parts to play in this discussion, but then who is he to say that a man with a less confrontational and butch personality is less of a man? He is being judgemental. Rob Bell, Brian McLaren, and various other Emergent leaders I personally see as much harder to listen to as a reflective follower of Christ, because their sermons and books have messages that the majority culture doesn't want to hear. Most church people in America are uncomfortable with them because of how far they and others with them are willing to go for Jesus. The most un-confrontational person I can think of happens to be the same one who has thrown himself in many situations that many Driscoll type of "men" wouldn't dare put themselves into without a gun. Shane Claiborne went to Iraq in the midst of the bombing, in order to be with the people of Iraq in that time of war.
Point being to this reply, personality does contribute to how we all act, but Jesus wants to transform all of us into people who live like Him. I agree that Jesus was a real "Man", but you don't see him going around punching himself in the face, (or anything remotely similar) to prove his manliness.
The reason why Driscoll is so harsh is because many of these "emergent pastors" have stepped away from God's teaching on basic beliefs in Christianity. We are supposed to rebuke the religious leaders who are leading people away to some other belief in Christ that is not true. Rebuke away Mark! All you people who think we need to just be nice and accept everyone...Get a life! Jesus rebuked the Pharisees who were skewing what the Bible taught.
Dude. thank you.
Give me a break. I love Rob. I don't agree with everything he says but I love him and what he does for people. I'm so sick of Christians spending sooo much time arguing dogma that they completely forget the 'widows and orphans'. Driscoll is a chest-beater that thinks he's 'radical'. Please. I love how 10 different pastors will have 10 different opinions on any give passage in the Bible. So Rebuke away and watch the rest of us simply walk away.
Why shouldn't MANhood be more Manly?
Mark has problems with the emergent church because they are throwing out the doctrines of: the trinity, the virgin birth, and jesus' resurrection.
Why in the world would "Driscoll type" men be afraid of going to Iraq? I know people who still vacation there. At this point you are simply needlessly bashing. That has nothing to do with anything and you know it.
Lastly, how in the world is the emergent movement supposed to "Say" anything? The whole point is its just a big discussion.
Rob hasn't thrown out any of the 'basic beliefs' of Christianity. The Trinity (even though IT ISN'T MENTIONED IN THE BIBLE), The Virgin Birth or the Resurrection. He has affirmed all of those beliefs. He has simply asked questions of them to make people think. God forbid anyone in the Christian community actually 'thinks' about any of these issues.
Driscoll's latest attack on 'The Shack' is a joke. I don't care if he hates to book but by telling others not to read it, he is basically saying 'I will inform you of all the truth you need; no need to educate yourselves'. That is arrogance on another level.
Mark is just being Mark. He is passionate about men being men-especially here in Seattle.
it's one thing when it's 'who' you are and it's another thing when it's part of the show. like watching a bunch of frat guys proving their manliness by ripping each other's chest hair off, jumping over bonfires, and having sit up competitions combined with drinking contests. but they're MEN, dammit! they're proving it with the stunts! *grunt*
HA! This is hilarious! I really like Mark Driscoll, he's solid theologically and has stepped away from the emergent guys because he believes that much of their message is compromised. I'd encourage anyone who isn't familiar with his leadership and teaching to listen to some of his sermons before lumping him in with other "celebrity" pastors.
But really, this write up was a riot!
Ya, um... I agree with Mike, you should definitely youtube some of his sermons and hear his theology. You really, really should. He sure isn't compromised. Especially before sending any money, or telling your friends you like Driscoll. Your right, he sure isn't compromised. Crazy yes, but not, thank God, compromised. That would be horrible.
If Pastor Mark were to terminate any of his staff for fitting the wussie man part, half of them would no longer be employed. I used to volunteer at MH. The place is FULL of emos and Rob Bell doppelgangers. With that being said, if Christ is in you and working through you, who gives a rip what you look like. If behaving like a Christian means I have to start lifting weights and watching PPV television, then I've been wasting some precious time! And all this time I've been investing in my unsaved neighbors, friends, family, and coworkers lives. I'm gonna go repent and buy a protein shake and order me up some cable tv because, you know, I want to be more like Mark Driscoll. Anybody else game? If so, you can repent and ask Mark Driscoll into your heart right now. Repeat after me:
Dear Lord Mark Driscoll,
I know that I have been a douche bag sissy boy my whole life,
and I repent of it now. Please enter my heart and change me into the ultimate fighting machine you want and need me to be in order to benefit your kingdom and make your church grow and book sales sky rocket. I willingly give you my heavy, sissified yoke and gladly take upon your light and stylish leather, pooka shell, and shark tooth choker.
In your cool name,
Right on.
this was hilarious and probably needs to be spread around a bit... I like driscoll, and needed to be reminded that Jesus is the one who deserves worship not Mark.... ROFL
I know that the Door will not retract comments made, but I would just like it to be known to all of you (including you, Mark D) that I am sorry for the above comment on Mark Driscoll. At the time of writing the above comment, I had a seed of bitterness that has now been brought to the surface. Having repented of that bitterness, I emailed Mark for forgiveness (he really had no idea what I was talking about, but that's okay). He forgave. Thanks Mark!
Blessings to you all.
Chad.
Awesome.. you are LEGEND
solid theologically, is that a joke?
I would argue that this speech, not speaking for anything else he has done, shows a very poor grasp of New Testament theology. This is evident from the fact that he tried to get five pastors to hit him in the jaw, and had them escorted from the building because they would not do it. Tell me where you find this sort of behavior promoted in the Bible.
Ok, so David was a real dude because he slaughtered a bunch of people. I guess that makes Osama bin Laden a perfect candidate for the ministry. Why is it that the church has forgotten that Jesus turned the other cheek, that Paul apologized for losing his temper and hitting the high priest in the face, and that we are to live at peace with all people as much as it depends upon us.
Can anybody actually tell me what this message had in common with Christ's teachings?
I don't think you got the joke.
I'm just saying.
Right On! Mark uses solid theology in his teaching. He not only has stepped away, but is one of the few who will rebuke...Love that guy.
A man's conference with tool and load in the title. At what point in the conference did they have the circle jerk.
Parody!
How's Whittney?
It sounds like the whole thing was the circle jerk.
rough words from a guy whose initials are BJ
You're right CDS. I'll try to soften up. Tell your mom thanks for the quality BJ.
No reply necessary. You've gotta know that if you are a believer, you took a fleshly thought and ran with it. We all get the connection, but you're thinking in the flesh. Don't promote those thoughts but rather condemn them brother. They're Impure, sensual, fleshly
I love Mark, his is a man's man. I listen to him all the time and I have learned alot from him. There need to be more men like him. There are way too many pansys in church today.
Yeah, they're a bunch of wussies. Probably too timid to even leave their real names when they post a comment on someone's website.
Seriously, Driscoll is the joke here. His macho shtick only calls attention to himself. Personally, I think he's, um, compensating, if you know what I mean.
Does being a "man's man" mean he's gay? If so, why doesn't his partner get to speak?
Uh Huh!!Yes,Christ preached Turning The Other Cheek,But He also Beleived In Violence Only as A Last Resort!!!
Yes,Christ Could Kick Some Serious Butt When and If the time arose,
But He didn't Go Around Kicking Butt and Taking Names Either!!
Damn right!! You ever watch Jesus Christ: Vampire Hunter?
Do you think God really approves of ultimate fighting where men attack the image of God in other men? Our bodies are the temple of the Holy Spirit, we are to take care of them. Men can possibly die in those ultimate fighting matches. I can't believe he supports such a thing.
Sharon, it's a guy thing. Butt out! Besides I wouldn't fit conveniently in either of your steriotypes. I am very studious AND very rough-and-tumble.
Charles, just what "image of God" do you think is taking a pounding in the ring? You don't even know what that is, do you?
Besides: "...in Him is neither male or female..."
At this point, Driscoll's "real man" would step in and kick the shit out of you for talking like that to a lady.
: )
nether male nor female... so you CAN be transgender... awesome.
more Rocky Horror for all.
Scratch, Fart, Spit
Burp, Adjust Balls, Spit
Blow snot rocket, fix wedgy, spit
Real men aren't obsessed with being real men. Kinda like wearing fake biceps or something. As my husband says, "If you gotta flaunt it, you really haven't got it."
BJ, I'd tweak your funny antics just a bit:
Scratch, Fart, Spit, for the Kingdom.
Burp, Adjust Balls, Spit, . . . for the Kingdom.
Blow snot rocket, fix wedgy, spit . . . yeah, that too.
We've lost the culture because we're self-centered. MD is just encouraging more of that sort of garbage. As a woman, I think this just is actually a little pansyish in and of itself. If my husband was talking like that (the real stuff not the parody) I'd be mortified.
I appreciate your comment and fully agree...
The most "manly" men I know are both strong, and kind, and completely at ease with themselves (i.e. they don't need to talk about their gender all the time or try to make other people the same as them, rather they go about the good kingdom work set before them). Through their strength and kindness they have revealed these aspects of God to me. They have a security that I believe comes from experiencing God's love and acceptance, and I hope MD can find that. As it is now, he reminds me of a little boy, blustering and trying to intimidate others because he feels, well, little. May he know God's deep love for all of him.
"Remember, I'm still a guy." Brad Paisley
JUST LIKE JESUS.....YEA, RIGHT??? WHAT A CROCK!! THE CHURCH IS BECOMING EXACTLY LIKE THE WORLD! YOU CAN HARDLY TELL THE DIFFERENCE ANYMORE. PASTOR'S ARE LIKE CEO'S AND ARE ACCOUNTABLE TO NO ONE!! IT'S ALL ABOUT GREED AND MONEY....NOT GOD!!
Yea David played a lyre but I like to think the lyre as a Bible times version of the guitar.
In other words, David taking out lions, bears, giants and soldiers while knowing some serious riffs...
... that would make him METALLLLLLL!
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